Warhammer Fantasy Battle Reporter Forum

Looking for comments on my first 2250pt High Elf Army list, I have attached a .PDF document which contains the list for review. Thank you all in advance!

Thomas

hi elvendarkness and welcome to the forum. Where's the pdf ?

Can you copy your list into the post ?

Hi Sigmar,

I attached the .PDF or so I thought, not sure what happened of if I did something wrong but her is the list below in text... Thank you for the welcome, great to be part of the forum!

Prince (2#, 620 pts)
1 Prince @ 620 pts (General; Hand Weapon)
1 Star Dragon (Causes Terror; Flyer; Large Target; Scaly Skin)
1 Star Lance
1 Armour of Caledor
1 Guardian Phoenix
1 The Gem of Courage

Lothern Sea Guard (10#, 155 pts)
9 Lothern Sea Guard @ 155 pts
(Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Bow; Spear; Light Armour; Shield)
1 Sea Master (Hand Weapon; Bow; Spear; Light Armour; Shield)

Lothern Sea Guard (10#, 155 pts)
9 Lothern Sea Guard @ 155 pts
(Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Bow; Spear; Light Armour; Shield)
1 Sea Master (Hand Weapon; Bow; Spear; Light Armour; Shield)

3X Repeater Bolt Thrower (3#, 100 pts)
1 Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 100 pts (Repeater Bolt Thrower)
2 Crew (Hand Weapon; Light Armour)


Lion Chariot of Chrace (5#, 140 pts)
1 Lion Chariot of Chrace @ 140 pts (Chariot)
2 Crew (Hand Weapon; Great Weapon)
2 War Lions (Causes Fear)

Dragon Princes (10#, 375 pts)
9 Dragon Princes of Caledor @ 375 pts
(Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance; Dragon Armour; Shield)
1 Drakemaster (Hand Weapon; Lance; Dragon Armour; Shield)
1 Lion Standard
10 Elven Steed

Mage (1#, 175 pts)
1 Mage @ 175 pts (Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon)
1 Dispel Scroll
1 Dispel Scroll

Great Eagle (1#, 50 pts)
1 Great Eagle @ 50 pts (Flyer)

Sword Masters of Hoeth (15#, 280 pts)
14 Sword Masters of Hoeth @ 280 pts
(Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour)
1 Bladelord (Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour)
1 Banner of Arcane Protection

Validation Report:
Edition: 7th Edition; Game Type: Normal Game; Army Subtype: High Elf Army
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules


Total Roster Cost: 2250

Interesting looking list if a bit one dimensional. Any reason you didnt give the Lord the Vambraces of Defence? Its standard build for Star Dragon characters.

Swordmasters are good, but Id split them into two units of 7 if you really want to take them. Given the use of the Eagle, Chariot, DP and Dragon mobility seems to be your primary weapon so the SM don't seem to fit into that list to well. Can you squeeze in any more DP's? Say take two units of 8 rather than 1 unit of 10. Lion Standard is an interesting choice for them as well - i am guessing your playing a fear causing opponent so its a good choice. If your looking for a more balanced approach though then Ellyrion Banner is standard for DP's and War Banner on 2nd unit would be good option.

If this was a tournament list you would get pinged for the 3 RBT's - how about dropping one saving yourself 100pts and investing in more fast movers.

First thank you for looking and thank you for taking the time to comment.

I actually saw the list on www.highelves.net and added additional units and items to it. It said it was for a tournament in the UK and the list had 3 RBT's... I had thought about adding some Ellyrion Reaver Cav to the list... Basically I would like to put together a list for tournaments that is flexible and so I have both options of sitting back and picking off the enemy and taking it to him with the dragon and DP's all at the same time!

p.s. I would love to add more DP's but the models are so expensive, however, I did hear a rumor that GW is planning to release some new plastic cav boxes sometime in 2010...???

Hi elvendarkness, first of all apologies for changing your topic title (I added High Elves, because even though it's in the High Elves forum it will get picked up by google surfers better with High Elves in the topic title).


My review of your list
-----------------------
I like your general, he's looking resilient with the 2+ armour save, 5+ ward save and a 3d6 roll for leadership which he might not even need to use. Not only that but putting a huge str7 A6 Star Dragon between his thighs make him a potential battle winner.

Excellent choice.

Your dispel caddy - good idea.

I also like the 3 repeaters and lothern guard. I always use both (or used to when playing as High Elves, I'm more of a Vampire or Nautican these days)

Great Eagles are recommended by most players, they are usually worth their points for tactical reasons such as march blocking, fear and war machine hunting rather than direct combat. I have a habit of putting a noble on one with the Reaver Bow because I like the romanticism and cowardice of it (some people might consider that a waste of points but I like the freedom they allow me, eg. ranged attacks on key enemy units that cannot fight back because they're too far away).

I like swordmasters but to be honest I have never had a lot of luck with them. They become real missile magnets for some enemies and they're often too weak when I get them into combat. Putting them into 2 units gives you more flexibility but makes the 25pt banner you have paid less cost effective. Also, in 2 units they are more prone to panic (which my armies seem to suffer from a lot !)

What will you do if you find the enemy approaching behind woods or worse still Wood Elves in the woods ? I guess you could use the Eagle but it's very vulnerable, usually anything considering going through or sitting in a wood is a skirmisher and has a missile weapon. You don't want to waste your Dragon on them and maybe not your Dragon Princes.

That's the reason why I usually opt for the Banner of Ellyrion with a small cavalry unit. I think it's good value but that might be because there are usually 2 woods or a wood and some difficult ground on the battlefield I usually play on.

If I was using this army I would let the enemy advance into the missile fire and try to combine the Prince/Dragon and Dragon Princes to get in overuns given the opportunities. Your Dragon could then hurdle the enemy to take on any warmachine crews (if need be) and charge back into the rear of the enemy afterwards. Providing you're lucky enough to have the space and time to achieve all this.

I guess a lot of the questions I have revolve around how you plan to deploy the army and what objectives the units would generally have. I know it's not easy to say a lot of the time but if you have a rough idea then I can try to comment further.

All in all, I cannot really fault the list. It's definitely a list I'd be happy to take into battle.

My opinions tend to be different than a lot of people, but I'ma give it anyway. ^_^

Firstly, Seaguard. I honestly cannot warrant using these in an army. You either stick them in ranks to get exta attacks if charged and lose shots per turn, or vice versa. They just don't seem worth it to me in my opinion. I'd rather take a big squad of Spearman to bulk up my lines or just plain Archers. They also only have shorter range than normal Archers, 24" compared to 30". I personally cannot justify taking them in any army.

If you're using your Swordmasters as one solid block, then consider taking a squad or two of 5 Shadow Warriors to skirmish in front of them. At 80 points for 5 I always try to fit at least 2 squads in as I really like them. Or you can use them more aggresively to irritate an enemy my placing them as close as you can at the start. ^_^

Your Mage. Since you've decked him out with Dispel Scrolls, I assume you're using him purely for defensive purposes? In that case, you get no bonuses for making him level 2 other than an extra spell and extra power dice, but if you're up against a magic heavy army you'll get nothing from those 35 points, and would be better spent somewhere else. Drop a Swordmaster and that'll give you enough points for a second Great Eagle. Then use your Swordmasters 7 abreast in 1 squad of fourteen, or two squads of 7 as someone else has said.

People may disagree, but each to their own.

The orginal list:
http://www.highelves.net/high-elves-army-wins-2008-uk-grand-tournament/

Smack,

Funny you say that because I've heard nothing but good things about the High Elf Sea Guard. The idea I had was for the Sea Guard to sit back and protect the bolt throwers while the Eagle, DP and Dragon go out hunting As for the lion chariot I need to learn how to effectively use it.

Thats a personal preference then. I despise Sea Guard. Used them a few times and they failed miserably. If you're going for something to defend the Bolt Thrower, I'd just use a big squad of 15/20 Spearmen. 20 Spearmen gives you a saving of 80 points, since you save 4 points a model for using Spearmen over Sea Guard. True, you lose 20 potential shots a turn, but the Spearmen will be more resilient against attacks than the Sea Guard will. It also allows you an extra Eagle, 2 Dragon Princes or a few more Swordmasters in your army. Or if you have another 5 points, you can have a bare squad of Reavers for extra flank/rear attacks.

Understood I honestly have never used Sea Guard before so I wanted to see how they would do, especially after reading the battle report on the original list (link posted earlier). I appreciate you suggestions on the large block of 20 spearmen and the other options that you mentioned. To be honest with you this is going to be my first High Elf Army list because I usually play Dark Elves >:)

Looks like you really love lion chariot models, as you field 5 of them! But I see only 3 charatcter slots filled out of 4, that are possioble for 2000+ games. I'd make some cuts through point values to field a BSB hero (probably placing him into DP unit).

First, I agree with Smack, giving your scroll caddy 2nd level is waste of 35 pts. In army with average number of spellcasters, you won't profit from this +1 power dice. I would also field archers instead of LSG, giving them no champion. For both units, you'll save 90 pts! I don't think LSG of 10 models would be enough protection for your RBT's anyway.

Lion chariots are cool, but they are movement 8 and 140 pts. I would exchange at least two of them with tiranoc chariots - movement 9 and only for 85 pts, it saves 55 pts per model!

For your spare pts, you can field BSB with some nasty banner, making him great backup for any unit he joins. Or you can field extra unit of DP's or SM's. But there is one problem - you already reached your maximum number of special choices (max is 7, you have 5 chariots, SM's and DP's). Perhaps I would drop one chariot to make this special slot free for such a unit. But 10 DP's in one unit is really to much - they don't need this expensive extra rank and you won't get any benefit of placing 10 in a front rank. Discharging 2 or 3 DP's in a unit will save you many pts for something else.

As for banner, I'd prefer standard af balance - it's more expensive, but it makes you immune to any psychology and cancels frenzy and hatred (good against darkl elves and the likes).

But well, everything depends on your gamestyle, opponents you expect to face and of course the general look of the army you really like.

Hi Mariachi,

Let me first thank you for your comments and for taking the time out to look over the list. :)

I'm only deploying one lion chariot, I believe it is showing 5 models like 2 lions, 2 lion warriors and a chariot equaling 5, (smiling to myself) I don't own five lion chariot models. :)

You bring up some go points and some things to think about, again, the list is from the link above which seemed to do well in a recent tournament. I only added a couple of additional things because i bumped up the list to 2250 points. I do find it interesting on how many people dislike the sea guard, prior to putting up this post I heard nothing but good things about them.

The game plan is to be aggressive with the Dragon and Dragon Princes while using the great eagle to take out the opponents war machines. The three bolt throwers will focus on taking out any magic users (I believe that having three bolt throwers is legal yes?). The sea guard would be for taking pot shots at the enemy and protecting the bolt throwers. As for the sword masters and lion chariot they would just move across the battle field... Haven't really given them much thought to date, at least not yet :)

Oops I did not count the total points, otherwise I would see 5 chariots are too many points... But still, I would reduce # of Dp's to 7, mage to level 1 and change LSG to archers. This should be enough spare points for noble BSB with some nice banner (like battlebanner) and join him with DP's - there would be two deadly units, DP's and dragon with prince. I would give vambraces of defence, amulet of light (or talisman of loec - depends on who you expect to face) and normal lance instead of guardian phoenix and star lance - star dragon is killer himself, prince needs to be more defensively built to survive the carnage. As for lion chariot - I prefer to make my chariots operate in pairs (more impact hits = few retaliation strikes and greater CR) and so I would field 2 tiranoc chariots instead of it. You should have enough points for them when you degrade your mage. For aggresive rush you can use dragon, DP's and eagle. Chariots can defend your RBT's by charging units that come too close, SM's dealing with the rest. So no need to field LSG, I would rather place archers on the hill for some more firepower. I don't think LSG in # of 10 will be efective against most close combat units. I would rather devide SM's into two units of 7, they will be great guardians for your shooters, combined with the chariots. And your enemy will most probably target DP's or dragon instead of SM's with his ranged units...

Standard of Balance is a brilliant banner if you know your enemy. My close friend, who is my most often played opponent, uses Dark Elves, so I always take that banner with my biggest squad of Swordmasters to screw over his Hatred and Frenzy.

I agree with Mariachi in theory on Chariots working in pairs, but I have a strong dislike of Tiranoc Chariots in general since they just seem flimsy compared to what I think a chariot should be like. I'd use two Lion Chariots if I used two. Much stronger and Fear causing.

My only other comment to add to what Mariachi said is that I find Great Eagles work well in pairs. One by itself can be a bit lonely attacking war machines. So if you can fiddle around and add a second Eagle in, go for it.