Warhammer Fantasy Battle Reporter Forum

playing an experienced O&G general next week.this eve watched him muller VC with 4 bolts,a trebuchet,pump waggon,savage orcs(2 large units),2 goblin units,several trolls and some space hopper things.his general has an item that steals stats from you(?!)and is immune to psychology..and he claims to have never lost with this set up,which is a red rag-i could sense all of us onlookers bristle at his gobbiness(sic).i know its just a game but i want to comprehensively beat the ^%$£*&^.
my army can field any HE unit except silver helms.a coupla useful broad strategies or complete lists would be much appreciated.we play on 4'x4' tables with no water features,usually 2-4 hills and 1 or two woods.thanks

I've never seen OnG armybook, so cannot help you much, but let me give some suggestions. Against this shoota army, i would consider 2 options.

Either to go offensively, taking star dragon with lord (vambraces of defence is must), 4 eagles, some shadow warriors, ellyrian reavers and perhaps dragon princes (including hero with sacred pendant) if you have some spare points. Archers as core choice. You should place as much terrain as possible - your dragon and DP's will need some cover not to be shot to pieces. I'd fly with dragon forward and hide behind terrain so war machines cannot shoot him. Same with DP's. With eagles forward so they could charge war machines in next turn (but outside charge distance of oricish mob). SW to harass the war machines (chuckas have miserable chance to hit them, only threat is catapult). In next turn I'd charge war machines with eagles (rather 2 eagles on 1 machine...) and, if possible, also charge them with SW's. ER's, DP's and perhaps archers should go and attract rest of army (so they won't go to defend machines) With dragon, I would fly right into the middle of machines - as far as I know, their crews have miserable Ld and there is pretty chance they won't pass terror test - breath can deal with them who do. In next turn, you should be able to deal with machines. The rest of his army looks made of infantry, orcs are slow, you should outmaneuver them and strike wherever you need. If his lord is too strong, I won't fight him unless he's one of the last models on the field, then charge him with anything possible and win due to CR. Archers can also help dealing with war machines in the first turns.

Or to go defensively, field 4 RBT's, archers, mages. Archmage could have magical bow. Chariots, perhaps DP's (they have to be protected against shooting - hide behind terrain in first turns), ellyrian reavers or shadow warriors. With your machines and shooters, try to dispatch his machines. Mages can protect your own ranks and also harass his machines. Chariots and DP's to attack any unit that comes too close (preferably charging flanks or rears...). ER's and SW's to slow his advance. Once his machines, or most of them, are eliminated (HE have better firepower, better BS) concentrate fire on the rest while continually harassing them with your combat units. Rest of his machines could be dealt with by your quick moving units or SW's.

In both cases I would consider giving skeinsliver to some model - this +1 can mean you'll start, which is great advantage against shooty army.

These are just my suggestions, I usually improvise during combat, so I'm not very good at giving advise to other people. It depends on your gamestyle, tactical abilities etcetera. but I hope this helps.

If you go with the Repeater Bolt Throwers heavy route, make sue you target all firing at one squad of Orcs, as firing and routing a squad of Goblins won't do jack. Orcs and Goblins work on a scale, in that units only affect other units via panic if they are equal or higher on this scale. So for instance, you could obliterate a Goblin unit via shooting, but that won't make the orcs take panic tests. However, vice versa, and you'll have all Orcs and Goblins taking tests if you make an Orc unit flee.

Savage Orcs have frenzy. Get some Ellyrion Reavers and lure them either, away from combat, or into a position where they can be flank charged or shot to pieces by Archers/Repeater Bolt Throwers. They also have a 6+ Ward Save. Only base S3 though for Savage Orcs which isn't actually too bad. Throw a unit of Phoenix Guard in against one of the units of Savage Orcs and the Phoenix Guard should easily hold they're own.

Also, what you might have been referring to is the Amulet Of Protectyness. Its 25 points and allows the character to use the armour and ward save of the model that inflicted the wound. I'd used Swordmasters to target this bad boy. S5 hits against a 5+ armour save and no ward save - bye bye Orc hero/lord.

Watch yourself against any Black Orcs. They can choose to use any type of weapon in each round of combat, so you could find your Dragon Princes on the end of S6 attacks if the Dragon Princes don't decimate on the charge.

fantastic.i'm sure you're right-shadow warriors will work in the right terrain conditions,combined with anything pacy and in a combo.i think i'll try eagles and DP's;having turned WoC tank unit and flanking marauders into corned beef last week with 5 shadows,7 DP's and a chicken noble..
RBT's,archers,lvl 4 archmage(seer or silver wand,loremasters),lore of fire(waddya think?),lvl 2(ring of fury),high magic;it's never occurred to me to use a magic bow with a mage-really interesting idea.
haven't had much success with a big scaly-yet.can't seem to justify the points (but then i've played mostly of psychology immune armies) plus i like a lot of defensive bowfire.
At last-a chance to use my reavers(converted silver helms/archers/spearmen/tiranoc bitz cos warhammer defaults are a bit naff).thank you so much for the frenzy bait idea.will use them to pull savage orcs out of line,then charge with two lion chariots and small unit of swords.
Central units of PG and largish unit of spears to hold.DP's to flank.probably feed orc artillery with an eagle or two,whilst trying to counter it as you suggest,with missile and magic.
thanks also for the headsup on orc/goblin psychology-i would have wasted a missile phase finding that out.
having gone through all that,he might go chariot/big nasty strong.i would have time to change my list given the pre-game level of banter we expect from this player,so what sort of list could i muster as an alternative?
To Ulthuan,gentlemen,and thank you again for your time

If he gos with a charriot heavy strategy, justify points into a Dragon. Either that or take Tiranoc Chariots and charge him before he charges you. Nothing much else than just hold the charge with a solid unit. Take some White Lions with your general and they'll be Stubborn, and just use Shadow Warriors to cover everything else so he has to charge your Stubborn unit. Also, S6 hits will stand a much better chance than any of your S5 Swordmasters or S5 Dragon Princes. Its a shame Bolt Throwers aren't S7 with single shots.

On a secondary thought along those lines, get a mounted Noble and use the Star Lance. S7 hits on the charge will take care of any chariots, though be careful not to get charged. (Note, this is only because I've been told that S7 hits automatically kill chariots. I tend not to use chariots much so don't have much experience with them, and nothing in my army has S7 to kill them so this rule that someone told me off has never been something I've needed to know. Hell, I might be wrong. Don't know yet. ^_^)

I wouldn't be too concerned. I would avoid taking a Dragon if there are 4 chukkas on the board (especially on a 4x4). RBTs are something to consider to deal with the artillery. I recommend 1 or 2 eagles as well, use the eagles to bait the savage orcs because they're frenzy they have to follow the eagles, position the eagles at odd angles in order to pull the savage orcs out of formation. If you take 1 eagle then consider the standard of balance in a Dragon Prince unit, that will negate the Frenzy, and with ASF you will turn the orcs to green mush. I wouldn't worry about the gobbos at all until last. And use fire magic to cook the trolls. Take archers to widdle down his rank and file and swordmasters for clean-up(they're immune to Warhammer!!! ). You always strike first so it doesn't matter if they take a charge.

Best thing is to show your confidence in your army because he seems to be over confident with the O&Gs and that can be a big folly for such a random hit and miss army like O&Gs.

i am an orc player. you need sword masters and dragons and bolt throwers. do not expect to kill anything with your archers

I disagree Orcy. Archers will demolish any Goblins they can hit. And Savage Orcs don't exactly have the best of saves. Only heavy armour? So 5+ to wound but only 5+ to save too.

I disagree Orcy. Archers will demolish any Goblins they can hit. And Savage Orcs don't exactly have the best of saves. Only heavy armour? So 5+ to wound but only 5+ to save too.

That's why I would place enough terrain to hide your dragon behind it. He can fly close to war machines in the same turn they are attacked by eagles, shadow warriors or whatever. Some may run because of terror, others will be busy fighting eagles or SW's (or got killed by them), others will be hit by S4 breath (and have solid chance to panic). If there will be still some machines left free to shoot, it won't be enough to slay a dragon. Dragon can charge the rest next turn, depends on who will stay alive (if anybody).

As for RBT's, volley shots have solid chance to hit crewmen. 4 RBT's = 24 shots that hit on 4+, so statistically 12 hits, 4 hits to crew. How many crewmen do the chukkas and catapults have? Remember that you resolve all hits with one RBT's before you decide target for the next one. Once the crew (or even the machine itself) is banished, you can aim for the next one with other RBT's.

As for archers, I think they are definitely worth taking. With their range of 30'', they can help killing goblin crews of machines. They can also deal with squigs (aren't they T3?). And should your opponent take some wolf cavalry, archers will be excellent against them. I would even use them to shoot at gobbos, even though that won't cause panic in the orcs. Anyway, they will be more useful then spearmen.

no 5s to wound orcs as they are piorety 1

gosh, I just cringe at the thought of taking a dragon against 4 S6 shots causing D6 wounds...I don't like Dragons personally, maybe I'm biased then, dunno. 320 or so points and a hero slot for a beast that will hide behind a tree or a house for the first 2-3 turns sound like a waste but maybe the Orc player will be dumb and try and shoot the Chukkas at the RBTS or something equally as ludicrous.

no its target dragon fast cavelry to bolt throwers

wow,what a response,cheers fellas.i think the terrain would suit a dragon and i feel heartened by others' success in this area but you have a moot point iggy, in dragons using the extra hero slot;i like using characters;typically Korhil,lvl 4 mage,lvl 2 mage & BSB with battle banner-the latter of which is delightful when facing a combat heavy army cos they think its going to be a gentle stroll then come a cropper on CR,which seems to be the meat and potatoes of 7th edition infantry-based rules.
let me get this right,there seems to be two trains of thought.i want to be able to hold him up with scouts,decimate & panic artillery with bowfire and magic,pull his units out of line with bait,fast charge pump waggon/chariots/trolls/foot and separate his central forces from his flanks.cavalry will have to be sacrifices or able to operate individually(meh),then offer close support with small units of elite foot.i imagine melee to join along the line in turn 2 with Waaagh(wtf!),turn 4 with luck.archmage to sit in PG,lvl 2with loremasters cloak in 2nd bastion unit(are two mages needed if goblin units are gonna run?)..or..
big f****n tree-huggin scaly,2bolts left&right centre,heavy cavalry flanks,2eagles,lvl2 mage-silver wand,ring of fury,lore of fire,soft centre spears and bows,2nd line swords and shadow warriors if conditions permit.

If you take dragon and only one mage, don't waste points on level 2, rather spend it elvewhere. And give him scrolls istead of silver wand