Alright everybody!!!!!!!!!!!

There was a lot of fun and spirited debate last time around, so let's throw up an other discussion. Same rules apply as before, points for the "answer" that is best represented, and points for the debator who makes the most interesting comments that contribute to the discussion.

This debate will conclude on June 7th.

Question: Which of the other armies in Warhammer is the most effective for taking down the Vampire Counts and why?

Note: Points will also be given if debaters chime in about what are effective VC plans to deal with different armies.

(I designed this question with the intent so that New VC players can see what to expect from various armies, and what are some simple plans to impliment against specific armies, that a new player can build upon. That and I love to see all of us argue over who can take down the VC's best )

(scurrdi, you were right, to close of names, so I switched it to this, thanks for pointing that out)

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Heya Tom its Bob from the office down the hall, good to see you buddy how've ya been? Things have been okay for me, cept that I'm a zombie now...

TK, HE, LM... all i can say...


VC are lesser undead..

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"Revenge is a dish best served with mayonnasie and those cheesy things on stick" -Escir the Loopy, Governor of Corania, removed from office by Officio Assasinorum

They are not Lesser Undead. They are just as regal and ancient as Tomb Kings, and used to be long ago one in the same. They are more devious and scheming which makes them even more awesome. TK are kinda just there and do their thing.

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Heya Tom its Bob from the office down the hall, good to see you buddy how've ya been? Things have been okay for me, cept that I'm a zombie now...

Alright, you want the honest answer at who is probably well equipped to beat Vampires? It's gonna be a little shocker.

Dwarves.

I'll list a couple brief reasons (without too much detail yet) to allow other posters to blast this one away.

1. High Magic Defense: By default with every character the VC book having at least lvl 1 wizard status they are a magic intensive army. Dwarves, with their base 4 dispel dice and the opportunity for their rune priests to carry 3 dispell scrolls (more then any other race) makes them an ideal and nature canidate for stopping the raising of the dead.

2. Good ranged support: Sure the dwarves are slow, but you stick an organ gun on the flank and no vargulf is getting past that. The dwarven artillery is extremely powerful as well as the ranged units. Ideal for softening up a foe who doesn't fire back.

3. Staying in combat: As dwarves rarely ever get the charge off their army is designed around staying in prolonged combats, much like the undead. With a base ld. of 9 along with a wide array of runes which boost your ability to stay on combat (test ld on a 1d6, stubborn on a 4+, etc.) you can avoid any issues. This is added on to the fact that many dwarf units can benefit from being immune to fear and terror (hammerers come to mind) which is one of the main points of the undead.


Just a couple things to point out, come on folks, lets see the debate get going!

I have to agreed whole heartedly with scurrdi.

I am preparing to battle Dwarfs with my new Vampire COunts army and their magic defence is quite scary.

4 basic dispel dice plus 3 for a runelord with anvil. If the army takes the banner of Valaya (+2 to dispel), then nearly all of the most used VC spells will be dispelled by the dwarves on a roll of anything but a 1 !!!

So the Dwarfs can expect to be able to dispel, let's say, 6 of the VCs spells. That's a lot of spells !

Idf the Vampire player wants to counter this they either have to, forget about magic altogether (thus losing many of their advantages) or go magic crazy, eg. take Mannfred and 3 Vampires with the Master of Lore (I think it's called that) which gives +2 power dice. With 2 army dice the Vampire army would then have 17 power dice. If you have taken Mannfred with the Satff of Sorcery and let him use the army dice aswell he should be able to cast about 6.5 spells. The other Vampires should be able to cast about 6. The Dwarfs thus reduce the effectiveness of Vampire magic by 50% (that's the best a Vampire army will get against Dwarfs)

The Dwarf runelord and runesmith (if taken) can also use runic talismans to tr to destory enemy spells and add further dispels.

Not only that but the Dwarfs can make themselves immune to fear using runic standards (although it could get quite expensive because they will have to combine different runes - no item can have the same single rune or combination of runes).

So remove 50% of the Vampire magic and the Fear factor and you have vastly reduced the effectiveness of a Vampire army.

To be frank, I would be very confident of beating a VC army with Dwarfs. The other army I think would be most effective against VCs are High Elves.

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http://battlereporter.blogspot.com (home site)
http://naut1.blogspot.com (a new WFB Army)
http://2d6.blogspot.com (battle reports hub)

So Dwarves it is? Shall nobody challenge this claim?!?!?!?!

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Heya Tom its Bob from the office down the hall, good to see you buddy how've ya been? Things have been okay for me, cept that I'm a zombie now...

Alright. Well, this debate did not go as indepth as the last one. It might be because people hate the VC, thanks to me and Sigmar in the Army game. Or it might be because the answer is Dwarves, and nobody had anything else to add.

So the winner of this debate:

Tie: scurrdi and Sigmar. Both made great points

Winning army:

Dwarves.

Good job guys!

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Heya Tom its Bob from the office down the hall, good to see you buddy how've ya been? Things have been okay for me, cept that I'm a zombie now...