Warhammer Fantasy Battle Reporter Forum

Hi everyone
Since I decided to take on the roll of the Beastmen moderator, I figured I should get a start on it. So in order to peak everyone’s interest and get some discussion going before the new army book comes out next fall/winter I thought we could start a poll. So with that in mind I have made a couple of points with regards to what I feel would help the beasts and make them a contender on the battle tables again. Please add your comments on what you may agree or disagree with.

First off it is rumoured that the dragon ogre’s and shaggoth will be gone but a possible Gorgon is scheduled to come back from the 5th edition as well as adding some special charactors for centigor’s etc. I will wait to see on this one. However to help out the beasties I think the next few items would work.

Hero’s
- Lord – raise his leadership from 8 to 9
- Brayshaman from 6 to 7
- Wargor from 7 to 8
- Great Brayshaman from 7 to 8

Core
- Warhounds – leave ambush but add move through woods without penalty
- Chariot’s – Keep the same but with marks and a character being able to use them (existing ?)
- Beast Herd – Change the raiders rule so minimum ranking is five this will bring it back to what it was meant to be. Allowing ranks on units less than 5 wide.
- Beastigor herd – Ok as is

Special
- Centigor – Keep drunken rule and move through woods without penalty but add fast calvary, after all these guys live in some pretty difficult area’s and they should have the ability to move as freely as they could in these area’s. This would make them a very powerful special choice but a fair one. (IMO)
- Ogres – Same as now
- Trolls – Same as now (possible special charcter as in WOC)
- Minotaurs – Same but perhaps option of marks
- Shaggoth – Rumour has it it’s gone
- Possible addition of Harpies

Rare
- Dragon Ogres – Again rumoured to be gone. (replaced with what?)
- Spawn – keep the same with marks
- Giant – what’s to change here except maybe points cost.
- Possible addition of a Gorgon. (Rumour is they are bringing it back from the 5th edition. Not sure about it except it used a template to turn others to stone or something like that.

What do you think?
L.

I'll be first here to say I don't agree hehe, Beastmen are typified as being a bit cowardly and are an ambushing army, I exxpect them to hit hard and then leg it if the tide turns, lower leadership represents this. I know that fluff doesn't equal rules or maybe add a rule similar to the skaven whereby their leadership benefits from greater numbers.




If they add a move through woods rule I'd expect them to have a big point increase especially as they already have ambush. 'm imagining that they will have the poisoned attacks and scaly skin upgrade ala WoC.
I agree with you on Chariots.
Agree on Herds, also would like to see them be able to take Marks but realise this may be the sole domain of the Bestigor.



With Centigor I'd give them either the move through woods or fast cavalry, can't remember if they had ambush but I'd add that if not.
Ogres - New models at least, same with Trolls. Current ones are shocking
Agree on Minos, adding marks would be cool.
No Harpies, with ambushing units you shouldn't have a problem chopping off warmachines which is Harpies primary mission. Warhounds can do the same job but are just a little slower.



Nothing really to say here other and Dragon Ogres need new models, the current ones are almost as old as I am.

Just my opinions of course.

You make a good point about the leadership and the beasties being cowardly but I think with a leadership of 7 these guys will run away when they hear a pin drop and i think they they would be a little more inclined to slay aomething than run away especialy if in the woods.

I also agree that some newer models are needed so we will see. Good points on all subjects though.
Cheers

I think the beasts are still a pretty competitive army, just more difficult to wield.

However, what sorts of negatives will you be looking to take for these things? So far all of these positives generally mean a point increase in models. Are you willing to part with this?

Or other things like this? I'm just wondering if they are just gonna get a huge boost or if there will be some negatives as well.

Just playing the other side of the coin, thats all

I think a points increase will happen in some area's like you say, a trade off will probably be required. However the rank bonus from the raiders rule shoould be corrected to allow a rank of five but we'll see what happens.

I disagree that the leadership should be lowered or raised. I think that it is fine where it is now. I can't imagine a monstous hord of beastmen fleeing from some lowly empire units, but i don't see them as greatly organized either. If they are going to lose the fight for sure, then ther are going to run. They are tought though, so they are going to try to win even when it doesn't look too good. I also disagree with giving more units the ambush ability. Centigors would be way to over-powered. If the other player is not aware of the ambush ability, a few units of beast herds is more than enough to wipe out half of their army. M 8 is to far of a range to allow a unit to ambush and they are far to large. However, they do have to upgrade them is some way. They greatly improved the High Elves by giving them the Always Strike First rule. At the least, they should give the Beastmen some better magical weapons and armour, especially under 50 pts. As far as the Marks of Chaos goes, i think it would be nice to be able to give more units a mark. Overall however, the beasts of chaos are still a pretty strong army that can use many different tactics. I have been able to beat the High Elves, the Vampire Counts, and the Lizard Men with them so they don't exactly need a complete redesign. They just need some touch ups to make sure the other armies don't get too far ahead.

I'd certaily like to see some more magical items and more powerful ones, the current beastmen collection is too lame in comparison with more recent army books.

I was reading the army book again this morning and the current list would actually deter me from collecting the army. I like the concept of wild chaos twisted beasts ambushing unsuspecting marching armies but the list is just not strong enough. I'd happily take them on with my Vampires or High Elves and get them a head start in points.

I agree with Khazrak though, the army doesn't need a major design ust some tweaks and possibly an army wide advantage - although I cannot think what at the moment. Any ideas anyone ?

I'm keeping an eye on those beasts I'm hoping they come along nicely

In response to Luckless and his requests

LORDS - I say leave the LD as is, but bring up their INT or ATT stats I'd like to see them be more about stricking fast, but ready to leap away from a bad combat to possibly rally again for another charge

CORE - warhounds:- are fine, possibly just give them fast cav
chariots:- possibly an additional crew or additonal armour save
beast herds :- agree 100% on the 5 wide rule, would like to see the foe render drop in price, but his role of extra leadership does make him valuable
bestigor:- they need serious boosts, they need 2 attacks each like swordmasters, they need the option of AHW or GW (maybe something similar to the black orcs) and I'd also be tempted to give them WS 5, pretty highish for a core choice, but dwarf longbeards have the same

SPECIAL - centigor :- fast cav for sure, if not fast cav then options to make them a heavier cav (not super heavy like empire/bretts, but some more armour save
ogres :- would like to see them have the option of marks, would then make it a hard choice tween mino's and ogres, ogres are great cause you can get a 3+ armour save, mino's are slightly better for the extra speed and attacks
trolls :- fine as is, I agree
mino's :- they need to have a boost to the WS, from memory beasts are the only army that have mino's so would like to see them become more integral to the army, a doombull leader makes them core is great, but would like to see some rule that allows more mino's even if you didn't take a doombull (perhaps a magic item, give you a 2 units for 1 special slot option)
shaggoth :- needs dragon's toughness and strength, and needs a drastic drop in price (well not drastic, just a good 30pts, of course there are still rumors of them been dropped)

RARE - dragon ogres :- if they are still in then would like to see more armour, perhaps something like a cavalry bonus to their armour (i know i'm talking about more armour a lot, must be the dwarf in me) apart from that perhaps just an increase in the WS
spawns :- fine as is, spawns rock
giant :- again fine as is, giants rock even more, however i've seen too often a double team of giants in beasts lists, would like to see less of that

now all those bonus's are going to cost a bit, however beasts as they stand now are the weakest army in the game, most of the bonus's listed above, apart from perhaps the bestigor are fairly minor, one stat upgrade here, and more options for some untis so possibly leave points costs as they are now, or at the most 1 or 2 pts more

cheers
Thordoc

having just downloaded the rules, i think WS should be increased so beasts can fight elite opponents and have a chance to hit.