Warhammer Fantasy Battle Reporter Forum

1. For a HE magic/shooting heavy army, do white lions or phoenix guard work better/have more synergy?

2. I dont see this often, but is a mage on a steed thrown in with some reavers work well, i mean is the mobile magic base worth the pts and unit?

1: Definitely go with the Phoenix Guard. That ward save has saved my butt countless times. For staying power in close combat against the elites while everything else gets shot up, they are about the best there is. The ward is also good for against enemy magic and shooting.

While the White Lions are good defensively against shooting, to get your points worth you are going to want the staying power in combat that the Guard provide and the Lions tend (IMO) to lack. I'd recommend taking Caradryan once you are around the 2000 point barrier, especially against armies that are loaded with cavalry and heroes. His weapon and retributive strike will often be able to take out enemy lords. Caradryan w/ a unit of 15 or so Phoenix Guard make a good anvil for a wide variety of situations.

For against close combat-heavy armies though, I would actually recommend Swordmasters. Once you don't have to worry about Magic and Shooting against them, they are a lot better. 10 or so S5 attacks that ASF will usually win a combat by wiping out the front rank (no retaliation). Try it.

Can't help much w/ your second question, sorry.

Phoenix Guard are definately the best as they are more defensive in nature, and work well in bigger units. I usually fiedl 18-20 with FC and a War Banner to protect my Archmage.

White Lions are more offensive in nature and work better in units of 10-12, although the Stubborn might help them stick around more you are better off with the 4+ WS



It can do its actually a pretty popular option as they get the look out sir rule and are reasonably protected so you can spend your points on non protective items. Better still is to put him with a unit of Dragon Princes or behind them give him Lore of Fire, Lvl 2 with Seerstaff and choose Burning Head - cast it through the DP who are immune to it and its a nasty little surprise for people.

I've never played with my HE(still painting and gluing away), but I thought about making a shooting/magic heavy army but was told it would be no good. I've read this and been told this.

Have you tried this army out before?
And did you used all mages and no nobles(like I planned on doing)

I'm just curious. I don't want to hijack your thread so if you feel more comfortable answering these questions in a pm, then feel free to do so.

I really would appreciate your thoughts. I'm also enjoying everyone's posts on the matter. The only problem for me is price. I finally broke down and paid over 25 bucks(with tax) for 5 phoenix guard, not including command group. I was able to find SM's cheap on ebay but no luck with anything else. In fact, I finally gave up. I have a few Wlions as well but that is it.

Personally, I prefer White Lions. They might die easier but they're stubborn so they wont run away. Not only that but they hit pretty damn hard with WS5 S6 ASF. When you consider their high save against shooting and their woodsman rule, I think they are the most versatile unit in the HE army book.

I've only used Phoenix Gaurd once, and it didn't turn out too good. They stick around about as long as WLions but all they did was delay my inevitable defeat. They are only S4 so they can't take out tougher enemies like monsters etc. Also, most people pass their fear test and it's pretty unlikely that you'll be outnumbering.

But don't listen to me. I have never won a game.

The choice between Phoenix Guard or White Lions really comes down to the other offensive units you'll be taking.

Battles are rarely won through magic and missile fire alone (unless you have a Wood Elf hit and run army or Thorek with a gunline !) You usually need some decent fighters in the army.

White Lions are significantly more adept in offensive combat than Phoenix Guard. Phoenix Guard are great at holding the line and absorbing damage and a great place to put your Lord and BSB !

I used to be very defensive in my tactics and my Phoenix Guard always served me well and were one of the last units standing in most games.

Since I have adopted a more aggressive stance, I find I am taking a lot of White Lions and Swordmasters into battle. It's usually a more exciting game and it's always a quicker game if you go straight onto the offensive.

There are arguments for both, but combination make all the difference. You can give White Lions the Lion Standard, thus giving them stubborn on leadership 8 always, but not having the staying power or survivability of PG.

I agree with galeac, it depends on the composition of your army, your fighting style, your opponent etc. PG have better survivability, so you can use them for holding some special items you'd like to use (like Banner of sorcery) or they are better against low Ld armies. WL may work better in games with lots of woods or against heavy cavalry armies, like brets. Both units are finely balanced, do'nt worry;-)

Stubborn comes standard with White Lions, mate. Check rulebook. Putting the Lion Standard with Spearmen sounds like a nice idea though. I think I'll do that next game.

I've come to change my mind about Phoenix Guard though. I've had 3 games against chaos since my last post. I took Lions the first time, and they couldn't pump out enough attacks to be competitive with the Chaos Warriors. The next two games I took Guard, and they did quite well. They won combat the first game and ran down a unit of Warriors and the second game they stuck around for ages.

Best combo, I reckon(completely ) is sticking Korhil in Phoenix Guard and Caradryan in White Lions. Korhil-stubborn on Ld9+cause fear of PG and Caradryan-fear immunities+MR 3+Ld 8. They compliment the units enemies. Korhil adds an offensive edge to a defensive edge, while Caradryan takes on opponents that would butcher the White Lions with 4+ save.

@galeac:

That sounds like an awesome combo! Does it work in a 2000pts or less game? I love Caradryan but he costs a ton of points. Including both characters wouldnt leave a lot of room for magic, am I right? Have you tested this? This is exciting stuff!

an example of PG/lions use,as the general consensus seems to employ hammer and anvil tactics,try this.terrain will dictate positions


RBT RBT bows PG/lions
swords swords spears


RBT's on hill
use bows as screen.vs cavalry(supposing bolt throwers are their intended charge target).advance bows out of front arc.they are sacrifice/infantry blockers.PG/lions are stick units for swords to flank.however,the real threat is the substantial unit of spears (BSB,battle banner) and combat resolution.this allows for 2nd wave(swords)and 3rd wave(spears)attacks.if you keep korhil central he can jump to where you think the thick of it will be.with lore of light/metal you'll make a mess of most enemies once battle is joined.

not much good against gunlines (still havent cracked that yet)but will tie up big meanies and provide good interdependence for advancing enemy heavy infantry.
what do you think?

2. I dont see this often, but is a mage on a steed thrown in with some reavers work well, i mean is the mobile magic base worth the pts and unit?

Opinion: I like putting the mage on a steed for mobility if nothing else, I usually when playing my dark elves have my magic user riding along side my dark riders. Simply for the short range spells...